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		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:44 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

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Location: sagamore hills Back to top

I was using G-rated terms, hence 'grumpy'. would you prefer righteously indignant? I think we all know that you're not trying to get people to not go to that show but that, at least in your perception, your promoting tootsies have been trampled upon... to reiterate i just blabbed: Quote: The moral of the story is to either (a) build a relationship with an agent so that you are the only one the agent goes to with certain DJ's or (b) stay ahead of everyone else so you don't have to worry about others booking the stuff you're booking. That is the only thing that I see to be learned from this whole discussion, other than perhaps "Don't book a DJ that headrush has had in for the past two years unless you want three or four pages of bboard drama." oh yeah, and Quote: hy·per·bo·le ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pûrb-l) n. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton. hey, you do learn somthing every day!. Now it's friday afternoon...lighten up damnit!

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:46 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

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Location: sagamore hills Back to top

Strauzzie wrote: five pounds cain't hol me, biatch! yes, we all know that you're ten poounds of sheite just waiting to bust out of that five pound bag

		Posted by: Deviant

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:58 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 1131

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Location: Cleveland, OH USA Back to top

neuspeed wrote: That is the only thing that I see to be learned from this whole discussion, other than perhaps "Don't book a DJ that headrush has had in for the past two years unless you want three or four pages of bboard drama." But wouldn't you think it were kind of asinine if we booked, say, Dennis Rodgers? Isn't that simply an asshole move? _________________ .

		Posted by: Tekatoka

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:02 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 2067

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neuspeed wrote: to reiterate i just blabbed: Quote: The moral of the story is to either (a) build a relationship with an agent so that you are the only one the agent goes to with certain DJ's or (b) stay ahead of everyone else so you don't have to worry about others booking the stuff you're booking. That is the only thing that I see to be learned from this whole discussion, other than perhaps "Don't book a DJ that headrush has had in for the past two years unless you want three or four pages of bboard drama." No, No, No, NO! I am not going to let that stand. That is NOT the moral of the story. The moral of the story is that clubs and promoters had better start making collective progress in this fucking town or the scene as a whole is going to reach new depths in the shitter. I'll leave what 'being in the shitter' means up to individual interpretation, but I can tell you by and large you will continue to be jealous of Thomar's NYC event postings unless it improves. _________________ TITS

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:21 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

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Location: sagamore hills Back to top

Deviant wrote: But wouldn't you think it were kind of asinine if we booked, say, Dennis Rodgers? Isn't that simply an asshole move? If you did it two months after we had him in, yes. If you jacked him for a gig on the same weekend I had him in, yes. If you booked him six months or a year later, no. I don't have any agreement with him or his booking agent, and I'd probably be slightly amused that someone was actually repeating something I had done. Regardless I wouldn't air my issues out in a public forum. I've learned my lesson on that one.

		Posted by: Tekatoka

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:25 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 2067

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Have you had any real issues? _________________ TITS

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:31 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

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Location: sagamore hills Back to top

headrushmusic wrote: Have you had any real issues? No because other than Tripwire the small number of shows that we've done have been far enough off the beaten path that nobody else is doing it.

		Posted by: Deviant

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:34 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 1131

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neuspeed wrote: Deviant wrote: But wouldn't you think it were kind of asinine if we booked, say, Dennis Rodgers? Isn't that simply an asshole move? If you did it two months after we had him in, yes. If you jacked him for a gig on the same weekend I had him in, yes. If you booked him six months or a year later, no. I don't have any agreement with him or his booking agent, and I'd probably be slightly amused that someone was actually repeating something I had done. Fair enough. Though I would be surprised if I were not privately, if not publicly, called to task for doing so regardless of the time that had passed. Hmm, perhaps I should test this out... neuspeed wrote: Regardless I wouldn't air my issues out in a public forum. I've learned my lesson on that one. Wish stopped responding to my calls and e-mails even while we were still working for them. Also, I wanted to make this a public issue because I wanted to encourage a discussion about this. Plus, how am I supposed to achieve catharsis otherwise? _________________ .

		Posted by: Stark

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:49 pm Joined: 13 Dec 2004  Posts: 2441

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i have updated my sig. line... for ya'all :wink: that'll work. and i hope that you can understand my humor as well. _________________ www.soundcloud.com/dan-stark Owner/A&R at Beat Code

		Posted by: Tekatoka

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:50 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 2067

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Location: 216 Back to top

I consider this to be far beyond a discussion about a personal matter, because if you read between the lines, these are discussions that should be taking place in every city and about every club and promoter. This scene has struggled for an existence and an identity from Day One. How many times have we tossed out the question, "Why don't people throw raves anymore?" As a community we need to have the balls to ask, "Why do venues exist?" "Why do promoters exist?" "What's everyone's role?" If a club exists as a club and they are there to make money being a club, then that's one thing. They can play country or house, they're doing what they feel they need to do to bring people through the door, and if a genre of music benefits, then that's a bonus; but to most clubs it's not a goal out of principle. But I contrast that with venues that do seem to exist solely as a commitment to the scene. What could examples of that possibly be in history? the Paradise Garage? the Bedrock nights? Space? Vinyl? Tresor? What I'm talking about here is that it seems clubs want to have it both ways. Promoters cannot have it both ways. Promoters or clubs can't flit from thing to thing hoping that something will work. Okay, so maybe they can...but are they respected in the ways those places are? I think there are some examples here in Cleveland that have proven it can work: Capsule, Remix Lounge are two new ones. Maybe the solution is for promoters like us to open our own club. It seems like a perfectly viable one. I just wish it didn't have to be that way. It would be so much better if all clubs and all promoters could have a continuously mutually beneficial relationship, one that is both profitable yet devoid of overt commercialization. _________________ TITS

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:56 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

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Location: sagamore hills Back to top

Deviant wrote: Fair enough. Though I would be surprised if I were not privately, if not publicly, called to task for doing so regardless of the time that had passed. Hmm, perhaps I should test this out... A year or two ago my opinion probably would have been different, and I probably would've given you shit for doing that. I think after dealing with promoting, etc. for a while that the attitude that serves my sanity the best is a rather laissez-faire one. Deviant wrote: Wish stopped responding to my calls and e-mails even while we were still working for them. Also, I wanted to make this a public issue because I wanted to encourage a discussion about this. Plus, how am I supposed to achieve catharsis otherwise? I definately see your point there, and I guess there should be open discussion about such things...just so long as we don't venture into territory where the special olympics adage applies.

		Posted by: Tymezup

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:06 pm Joined: 01 Feb 2004  Posts: 5295

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Location: Cleveland, OH Back to top

Bottom line: Things turned to shit when promoters moved in to town throwing one off dj concerts. Clubs forgot the concept of "do one thing and do it well" and lost all originality. If this is that path Wish is heading to, then right on. I'd like to say it one more time... I didn't know who John Howard was until Headrush brought him to town. Then again I was raised in an era where 95% of the clubbers in Cleveland actually believed local djs were as good as national talent.

		Posted by: Tekatoka

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:27 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 2067

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Location: 216 Back to top

I agree with you on the "concert" approach here. That is why we try as much as possible to maintain a commitment to consistency and the local scene by throwing a weekly and involving as many djs as possible within that rubric of consistency. To me, that is a VITAL indicator of the agency's relationship with the promoter. Agencies should be plugged in with crews keeping it going week to week before and after the headliner whirls into town. In terms of the question, "why bother even bringing in out-of-towners?" I think it's important to do so if for no other reason than the exchange of ideas. Artists need fresh ideas to keep their material fresh. I love you all, but if you were all I ever heard in my lifetime, my musical ideas would be pretty stagnant. Growth is good. We can't circle the bandwagons forever. Which brings me to this point: Like Doug said, if Wish is growing the house scene, then great. But WHY can't it be organic growth without it being at the expense of others who have already made the financial investment, who will not see the financial return. I realize the educational investment we made has paid off. I don't dispute that at all. But what has happened (with our Summer Series events and the bad relationship with the bar) is that now we see no point in investing more money to encourage more growth, and I think that's a problem. I hear folks complaining in other threads, "Oh shit, more of the same, how many times are the same people going to come here??" Maybe other people here don't care if no new talent ever comes through. That's fine. But for me, personally, it's a living hell, and I will devote whatever resources we can muster to do things in a place where it is more fiscally responsible for us to do so. _________________ TITS

		Posted by: Tiesto

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:48 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 1407

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Location: Chicago, IL Back to top

The recent trend of insourcing of promotion... discuss. I think it can be good when done right, and obviously eliminates the problems of outside promoters getting screwed with the monumental door vs. bar sales descrepency. An example of how this works well locally is NRM/Mercury. The bad? You'd better have somebody w/ good knowledge (broad and diverse IMO) of dance music artists, or the whole thing will fall to sh*t in a big way. Note that I think the outside promoter model is a really good one, and there still needs to be a helluva lot of repair of these relationships between outside promoters and clubs. It's just so damn hard... and discouraging for good people who want to be outside promoters and have a lot to bring to the table.

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:53 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

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Location: sagamore hills Back to top

headrushmusic wrote: In terms of the question, "why bother even bringing in out-of-towners?" I think it's important to do so if for no other reason than the exchange of ideas. Artists need fresh ideas to keep their material fresh. I love you all, but if you were all I ever heard in my lifetime, my musical ideas would be pretty stagnant. Growth is good. We can't circle the bandwagons forever. What she said on that one...most definately! The DJ's that I've gotten to hear over the last five years have had a huge impact on the records I play (obviously)

		Posted by: ramzi

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:03 pm Joined: 20 May 2004  Posts: 315

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Anyone up for a rebirth of C.A.R.P.? Cleveland Area Rave Promoters association... Let us pick a less fishy name... Takers??? Ramzi Last edited by ramzi on Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

		Posted by: Tekatoka

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:12 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 2067

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Location: 216 Back to top

ramzi wrote: Anyone up for a rebirth of C.A.R.P.? Cleveland Area Rave Promoters association... Lets pick a less fishy name... Takers??? Ramzi Okie Dokie. _________________ TITS

		Posted by: Deviant

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:38 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 1131

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ramzi wrote: Anyone up for a rebirth of C.A.R.P.? Cleveland Area Rave Promoters association... Let us pick a less fishy name... Takers??? Ramzi I think that something along those lines would be good. A concept like this has been discussed in the past, though not necessarily in the form of a formal organization. In such a small city, I think that coordination and communication between promoters in terms of planned bookings and event dates can help to ensure greater success for everyone. I see a lot of that happening already informally. However, the trick is to have such coordination without making anyone feel that they are losing creative freedom or independence. I don't think that any promoter wants to feel accountable to anyone else. And, of course, there will always be promoters who don't participate in this cooperative union, so despite our best efforts, there will always be this X factor that will ruin our best-laid plans. And I certainly don't expect any clubs around here to give a rat's ass (though they probably should). I think that the important thing is that we all continue to talk to each other and treat each other with respect. Until the day that this city can support five promoters doing headliners on the same night (or even two promoters, for that matter), I think that open communication is the best approach. Okay, enough serious discussion about the philosophy of promotions in a small town. I'm ready to get drunk. You? _________________ .

		Posted by: Justin Hartman

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:47 pm Joined: 11 Feb 2004  Posts: 2960

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Location: Cleveland/West Side Back to top

Deviant wrote: I'm ready to get drunk. You? [Ear's perk up] Did someone say drunk? _________________ BALLLSS!!! ham.

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:12 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

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Deviant wrote: I think that something along those lines would be good. A concept like this has been discussed in the past, though not necessarily in the form of a formal organization. In such a small city, I think that coordination and communication between promoters in terms of planned bookings and event dates can help to ensure greater success for everyone. I see a lot of that happening already informally. However, the trick is to have such coordination without making anyone feel that they are losing creative freedom or independence. I don't think that any promoter wants to feel accountable to anyone else. And, of course, there will always be promoters who don't participate in this cooperative union, so despite our best efforts, there will always be this X factor that will ruin our best-laid plans. And I certainly don't expect any clubs around here to give a rat's ass (though they probably should). I think that the important thing is that we all continue to talk to each other and treat each other with respect. Until the day that this city can support five promoters doing headliners on the same night (or even two promoters, for that matter), I think that open communication is the best approach. Okay, enough serious discussion about the philosophy of promotions in a small town. I'm ready to get drunk. You? Dead on! I think that pretty much sums things up, and I couldn't have said it better. hmmm, perhaps I'll have to venture up the street for a minute this eve...drunk sounds mighty good!

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