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		Posted by: Derek Carney

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:59 am Joined: 11 Nov 2004  Posts: 5825

Post subject: Name a headliner...

Location: Oakland, California Back to top

... better than our locals. I can't think of any. I've had this conversation with a bunch of people recently, and I honestly think our locals bring more skills technically, and selectionwise than the vast majority of out-of-state, or out-of-city so-called "headliners" that we've seen this year. So, please submit some honest responses to this and give examples to back your shit up. _________________

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

Moderator

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:07 am Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

Post subject:

Location: sagamore hills Back to top

Adam Beyer/Marco Carola. Wider range than any techno DJ's I've ever heard, excellent mixing, incredible records. You were there derek, you know. Live PA's are a different story...it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

		Posted by: jdat

VIP Line Jumper

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:36 am Joined: 05 Mar 2004  Posts: 1197

Post subject:

Location: Mulhouse Alsace France Back to top

I'm not one to particurlaly agree with what you're saying but I will have to add this little theory I have. Dead scene/tight niche/djs playing for djs results in everyone trying to outdo themselves to come out of the rut and be better. I think. I'd also like to bring to mind that if you are only taking into account Headliner performances inside Cleveland exclusively then in most cases yes they will suck versus the locals. I have said it before that I honestly believe djs cannot play to their fullest while in this city because of early closing times. Shorter sets equals in more of a commercial performance or pulling out all the hot tunes instead of having the time to go deep down into the record box to pull out the most obscure and underground track. See the same dj in Cleveland and in New York and you will have two totally different performances because of the allotted space. There's also the issue that Cleveland isn't seen by a big scene city by out of towners so the headliners also feel they have to limit their game to more accessible tracks.

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

Moderator

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:57 am Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

Post subject:

Location: sagamore hills Back to top

jdat wrote: I'm not one to particurlaly agree with what you're saying but I will have to add this little theory I have. Dead scene/tight niche/djs playing for djs results in everyone trying to outdo themselves to come out of the rut and be better. I think. There's another reason to add in there as well...In cleveland there isn't much to be gained socially or monetarily from playing records unless you think music geeks are cool :wink: The 'rave' scene is dead and the edm scene in clubs is a much smaller segment than it was 5 years ago. Thus since there's not a lot of tangible gain to be had the people that are playing records are doing it because they love the music, not because it's cool or will make them a quick buck. Obviously these people are going to be the ones who continually expand their knowledge and capabilities. Quote: I'd also like to bring to mind that if you are only taking into account Headliner performances inside Cleveland exclusively then in most cases yes they will suck versus the locals. I have said it before that I honestly believe djs cannot play to their fullest while in this city because of early closing times. Shorter sets equals in more of a commercial performance or pulling out all the hot tunes instead of having the time to go deep down into the record box to pull out the most obscure and underground track. See the same dj in Cleveland and in New York and you will have two totally different performances because of the allotted space. There's also the issue that Cleveland isn't seen by a big scene city by out of towners so the headliners also feel they have to limit their game to more accessible tracks. I'll buy this to some extent, and I know the particular example jdat's thinking of, but I have one point to add to it. Quite frankly it annoys me when I hear DJ's that are getting payed upwards of 5k for a gig make really noticeable technical mistakes. I'm not talking dropping a beat here or there I'm talking trainwrecks. If you're getting paid that much money for a show you'd better be on the top of your game. period.

		Posted by: jdat

VIP Line Jumper

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:17 am Joined: 05 Mar 2004  Posts: 1197

Post subject:

Location: Mulhouse Alsace France Back to top

Jamie Tyler wrote: I'll buy this to some extent, and I know the particular example jdat's thinking of, but I have one point to add to it. Quite frankly it annoys me when I hear DJ's that are getting payed upwards of 5k for a gig make really noticeable technical mistakes. I'm not talking dropping a beat here or there I'm talking trainwrecks. If you're getting paid that much money for a show you'd better be on the top of your game. period. I think I know who you think I might have had in mind but no I wasn't thinking of one particular dj. As you may be aware I have seen more then just ONE dj out of town ( clubbing miles on the car can vouch for that ). And yes it's a damn shame about trainwrecking but you'd be lying if you said locals never did that ( I'm not implying you did either ) btw: here's what I'm in for tonight telepopmusik nathan fake james holden felix da housecat agoria dj vadim and side room has KOMPAKT NIGHT tobias thomas the modernist michael mayer jennifer cardini Last edited by jdat on Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

Moderator

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:26 am Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

Post subject:

Location: sagamore hills Back to top

jdat wrote: I think I know who you think I might have had in mind but no I wasn't thinking of one particular dj. As you may be aware I have seen more then just ONE dj out of town ( clubbing miles on the car can vouch for that ). And yes it's a damn shame about trainwrecking but you'd be lying if you said locals never did that ( I'm not implying you did either ) I know you've seen a LOT more dj's here there and everywhere than most of us (or at least me) Oh I screw up plenty and I'm sure most others around here will tell you the same, especially when lots of alcohol is involved. the difference is that people aren't spending $15 or $20 or mre in some cases to hear us play. If I pay a significant cover to hear a DJ play like shit I feel like I got cheated.

		Posted by: bac

Mnml Scarf Wearer

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:41 am Joined: 20 May 2004  Posts: 168

Post subject:

Location: Lakewood Back to top

I would agree that we have some very talented DJ's and artists in town. One really dope "big name" who I have a lot of respect for though: DJ Marky. His mixing is TIGHT. I learned a lot about how to mix listening to his "Brazilian Job" CD. He picks dope tunes, he mixes very quickly and smoothly, and he scratches. Sickness. I don't think anyone local is on his level quite yet. _________________ bac

		Posted by: Stark

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:17 pm Joined: 13 Dec 2004  Posts: 2441

Post subject:

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I dont know if it's fair to bring "God" into this, but I have heard PVD live over 10 times and have heard him train reck 1 and a half times. The half was a tech. error at Metropolis some time back where his computer crashed for a split second,( I guess he may have been using final scratch)(and he recovered very quickly) and the other time I cant remember, but I am sure that he has...and maybe I missed it. As far as the sets I have heard in Cleveland by big names as compared to big names I have heard out of town, they play better outside of Cleveland, I don't really know why, I think alot of it has to do with the crowd. Sander K, is always excellent, and of course Deep Dish is right up there with PVD...especially, Sharam. One more thing to consider...these jet setting dj's have a monopoly on new records that we can, in some cases never get, and when we do they are already on to the next big tunes that we will be buying in 6 months, god willing. Because of this, they are better...they have better music, newer music, different remixes ect... A recent example is the Set I heard in Toronto with Deep Dish, Sharam was dropping tracks I have never heard, and I guess I will never see half of them in any record store...it's a monopoly, and one I wish I was on the inside of. just my opinion _________________ www.soundcloud.com/dan-stark Owner/A&R at Beat Code

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

Moderator

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:54 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

Post subject:

Location: sagamore hills Back to top

Stark wrote: I dont know if it's fair to bring "God" into this, ... One more thing to consider...these jet setting dj's have a monopoly on new records that we can, in some cases never get, and when we do they are already on to the next big tunes that we will be buying in 6 months, god willing. Because of this, they are better...they have better music, newer music, different remixes ect... A recent example is the Set I heard in Toronto with Deep Dish, Sharam was dropping tracks I have never heard, and I guess I will never see half of them in any record store...it's a monopoly, and one I wish I was on the inside of. just my opinion You and I definately don't share gods, but that's all good. A little commentary on the unreleased records thing. personally I don't think that having access to tons of unreleased material has any bearing whatsoever on how 'good' a dj is. oakenfold probably gets as many white labels tossed in his direction as any other dj, and he sucks balls. What matters more to me personally is what the DJ does with the tracks and how they work together, not what the tracks are. I'm also a little arrogant in that I would like to think that everything I play I play because I found and liked it, not because I heard DJ X play it. Like Dan's above this is just my opinion...take it for what it's worth. One more comment on the empahsis on unreleased material (and resulting track envy amoung those who don't have access to it)...it seems to be more prominant in progressive and trance genres than in others from what I've experienced. Possibly because those genres are more 'song' or melody-oriented than some of the others? who knows. just some food for thought.

		Posted by: Stark

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:07 pm Joined: 13 Dec 2004  Posts: 2441

Post subject:

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I definetly have my own taste in music, but some of the people I mentioned have the same taste too, and they also have better access to those types of records that I would drool over if I heard them for the first time ever in Grand Poobahs. I totally agree with you on the "records selected, and how they are played" I also agree that Oakey sucks now. and yes I have record envy with some of my favorites...and I already explained why...they get shit I want real bad, but I have to wait 6 months, not fair. _________________ www.soundcloud.com/dan-stark Owner/A&R at Beat Code

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

Moderator

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:22 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

Post subject:

Location: sagamore hills Back to top

Stark wrote: and yes I have record envy with some of my favorites...and I already explained why...they get shit I want real bad, but I have to wait 6 months, not fair. You should talk to your october guest if you haven't already...he seems to be doing a good job of working his way up the ladder that you're looking at. I agree with you that it does suck to hear someone play a record and then have to wait months to be able to get your hands on it...I have had a few of those. I've been thinking about this for a minute and wondering why I don't have more track envy than I do and the only things I could come up with that I didn't list above were (1) that I pay more attention to what the DJ is doing...how they are mixing, etc. than the tracks themselves unless there's a line that really stands out and that (2) My memory is like a steel....seive and I usually forget the ID's of tracks that I do trainspot...of course alcohol never has anything to do with that either

		Posted by: Derek Carney

I<3CNL

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:24 pm Joined: 11 Nov 2004  Posts: 5825

Post subject:

Location: Oakland, California Back to top

Just to be more specific... I meant headliners that have played Cleveland this year. Personally, from what I've seen this year in Cleveland, James Curd brought enough energy behind the decks to cause everyone in his presence to get down and boogie like they should. He was a lot of fun to listen to and watch. I missed Markey... but from the D-n-B I've heard, personally, Still Life makes me want to push aside all the breakers and get down on that glowing dancefloor. If I want to pay to watch people dance, I'll go to CPT, MOCA, or rent Breakin', Breakin' 2 Electric Boogaloo, Krush Groove, or Beat Street. Time and again, I hear people hyping up the headliners and 95% of the time, the locals on the ticket are more spot on. _________________

		Posted by: Naps

Mix Librarian

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:41 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4037

Post subject:

Location: Houston,TX Back to top

Cleveland does have some great talent, I do agree that I enjoy most of our locals above lots of "headliners". But most headliners are now booked because of their production NOT their dj skills. This is why I personally think that most "headliners" are not as entertaining as they were in the past. It's just a different time now too. :wink:

		Posted by: stoutxtc

Housin' Yo' Ass

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:29 pm Joined: 15 Mar 2004  Posts: 7548

Post subject:

Location: 216 in the mix!!! Back to top

I would like to think that many of the local dj's are opening to compliment the headliner thus giving the locals some of the acknowledgement that they truly deserve...IMO :wink: _________________ "I got love for you too but STEP! You do you and I'll do me and stay out of my face unless you want some real talk" "Don't declare open season when you're a little black duck, ppl might start hunting"

		Posted by: Phoenix

CNL Bigmouth

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:30 pm Joined: 06 May 2004  Posts: 1751

Post subject:

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As far the crowd makeup here in Cleveland goes... lemme put it to ya this way: When I lived in Chicago I knew a LOT of people. I had a lot of industry friends, as my best friend up there plays bass in MY LIFE WITH THE THRILL KILL KULT. I've made a lot of great friends here, too. It took me a while to realize it, but almost 80% of my good friends up here ARE DEEJAYS! Wow! Is there anyone here in Cleveland that isN'T a deejay? lol Guitar Center (the MacDonald's of music stores) and Sam's Music must be making a killing here! p.s. I'm a pianist/syth/midi muscian so maybe that has something to do with it.

		Posted by: NRM

Mod from the Future

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:01 am Joined: 10 Mar 2004  Posts: 2851

Post subject:

Location: Faces Of Meth Back to top

JT wrote: There's another reason to add in there as well...In cleveland there isn't much to be gained socially or monetarily from playing records unless you think music geeks are cool The 'rave' scene is dead and the edm scene in clubs is a much smaller segment than it was 5 years ago. Thus since there's not a lot of tangible gain to be had the people that are playing records are doing it because they love the music, not because it's cool or will make them a quick buck. Obviously these people are going to be the ones who continually expand their knowledge and capabilities. so true. . . i can think back years ago how all these people popped up out of the woodwork and i said to a friend. . ."these people will be gone with this trend" and sure enough they have taken off. . there was seriously a time when you had like 10 local guys here all trying to be like bad boy bill...they were even getting asian tattoo's(in the exact same spot as BBB) and bleaching their hair. . . no kidding there. . . also i know alot of kids who were into it at the end of their high school years and have moved onto other things like bands or just have their time consumed with school and cant afford to be as deep into it as they were. . but overall the points jamie brought up are very true and head on. on the unreleased track thing. . . . sure those guys get alot of demos and pre-releases from friends/producers. . .look at it 2 ways, if the track is so dope its going to COME OUT or if they cant get the samples cleared they will just bootleg it these days(and for the last 2 decades) also dont forget about records you may have missed. but back to the original question. . . KENNY DOPE GONZALEZ. . .if you thought questloves set was wild....wait till you hear a live kenny set. . not one of his cds. . the man puts so much together so well. so fluid. my 2 cents MLF/NRM

		Posted by: stoutxtc

Housin' Yo' Ass

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:53 pm Joined: 15 Mar 2004  Posts: 7548

Post subject:

Location: 216 in the mix!!! Back to top

Gee Filly I wonder who you could be talking about there *sneezes* tigger! But yeah I'll have to agree with you on Kenny Dope Gonzalez! It's been too long since I've heard him live...and Louie Vega as well, man those guys will WEAR you out on a dancefloor! People in this city won't be ready...if EVER! _________________ "I got love for you too but STEP! You do you and I'll do me and stay out of my face unless you want some real talk" "Don't declare open season when you're a little black duck, ppl might start hunting"

		Posted by: Phoenix

CNL Bigmouth

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:57 pm Joined: 06 May 2004  Posts: 1751

Post subject:

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Gee, me being the the Johnny Come Lately, that just moved back here two years ago, the curiousity is killing me, here. Someone pm me.

		Posted by: Deviant

VIP Line Jumper

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:54 pm Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 1131

Post subject:

Location: Cleveland, OH USA Back to top

Jamie Tyler wrote: Stark wrote: and yes I have record envy with some of my favorites...and I already explained why...they get shit I want real bad, but I have to wait 6 months, not fair. You should talk to your october guest if you haven't already...he seems to be doing a good job of working his way up the ladder that you're looking at. Some comments: 1. It doesn't matter how early you get your music. It's either good music or it's not. Good music is timeless. And there is an abundant supply of good released music out there. 2. You can say my name. It's okay. 3. Don't be a ladder-worker. If any of you have seen a hardcore ladder-working DJ, then you know that person isn't me. I am a horrible networker, because I won't build relationships for the sole purpose of business. Just be friendly to everyone you meet. Do your best to help out others. It's all about karma. I've never asked for or lobbied for any of the fortunate things that have come my way. But I think that people often assume that success can only come by doling out a lot of blowjobs. That is not what I'm about. And if I'm on a ladder at all, I'm just a step or two off the ground. Don't be in this scene for success -- do it because you love the music, and if success is meant to come, it will happen. And if it doesn't, then you've still won, haven't you? _________________ .

		Posted by: Jamie Tyler

Moderator

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:03 am Joined: 10 Feb 2004  Posts: 4477

Post subject:

Location: sagamore hills Back to top

Deviant wrote: Some comments: 1. It doesn't matter how early you get your music. It's either good music or it's not. Good music is timeless. And there is an abundant supply of good released music out there. +1. I agreee with this wholeheartedly Quote: 2. You can say my name. It's okay. Dave Quote: 3. Don't be a ladder-worker. If any of you have seen a hardcore ladder-working DJ, then you know that person isn't me. I am a horrible networker, because I won't build relationships for the sole purpose of business. Just be friendly to everyone you meet. Do your best to help out others. It's all about karma. I've never asked for or lobbied for any of the fortunate things that have come my way. But I think that people often assume that success can only come by doling out a lot of blowjobs. That is not what I'm about. And if I'm on a ladder at all, I'm just a step or two off the ground. Don't be in this scene for success -- do it because you love the music, and if success is meant to come, it will happen. And if it doesn't, then you've still won, haven't you? Sorry, 'ladder' wasn't an appropriate term. What I was trying to get at was that you have more experience with the way things work in the progressive realm (which is what I assume dan is interested in) than the rest of us and that you may be able to give him a little insight. My apologies if that was taken the wrong way.

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