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Posted by: johnnylarock Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:35 pm
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Location: cleveland, oh
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Hey all. I'm the market to buy a new program to make music. I make hip-hop and some electronic stuff as well. I was wondering if anyone is super pleased with one and would suggest it. I had my eye on Reason, as well as Abelton Live. Anyone have any comments on either, or know a better choice.
Lemme know.
Thanks,
J L R

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Posted by: Derek Carney Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:25 am
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Location: Oakland, California
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yeah... BUZZ. It's free.

http://www.buzzmachines.com/

to download: click DOWNLOAD under the INFO heading on the left side...

Then make sure to download the MASSIVE BUZZ PACK and follow all the instructions.

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Posted by: Deviant Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:28 am
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cubase sx + reason

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Posted by: johnnylarock Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:06 pm
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Dwreck, thanks for the suggestion. I am checking out the site now at work. Sounds pretty sweet, plus yeah it's FREE! I will check it out for sure. Thanks.

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Posted by: jdat Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:47 pm
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This isn't what you asked for but:
Do you have a control surface?

If you're going to be working on hip hop and making some more complex beats I recommend this:





M Audio Trigger Finger.

Around 200$.


Now on the otherhand if you already have let's say an mpc or the like this might not be useful for you.


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Posted by: Nick_S Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:48 pm
Joined: 05 Jan 2005  Posts: 413
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Location: thieveland, bitches.
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get cubase, a quality multi i/o soundcard, and an mpc for hiphop.


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Posted by: Suburban Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:34 pm
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my vote's for reason and a good midi controller.

akai makes a midi version of the MPC pads...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/MPD16--Main

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Posted by: Nick_S Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:01 am
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Suburban wrote:
my vote's for reason and a good midi controller.

akai makes a midi version of the MPC pads...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/MPD16--Main


yeah...but it doesnt have the mpc sequencer...its just the pads....for example...the midi controller doesnt do note repeat like the sampler...dont get me wrong...an mpc isnt required for hiphop...but most big hiphop producers use them cuz of the features the sequencer has that other sequencers dont....not to mention the gritty soundquality of the mpc's sampling engine(compared to soft samplers and their lab sterile sound)

i wasnt a believer til i got my mpc...now that i have it, ill never look back.


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Posted by: Suburban Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:07 am
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the MPC may have a few nice producer friendly features built in, but Reason + midi controller has leaps and bounds more versatility. Reason has: a drum machine, a loop player, 2 samplers, a reverb module, delay module, distortion module, a graintable synth, polyphonic synth, and a vocoder. (i'm sure i left something out too.) oh and i can't leave out the factory sound bank which has loads of samples for making any genre of music.

you're telling me an expensive sampler/sequencer with sample repeat is better than that?

with an MPC, you get a tiny 2-color LCD to stare at while working with your tracks. with Reason, you'll have your entire computer screen to view your instruments rack and sequencer.

is spending $1000+ on a box with less features the smart thing to do?

Reason is $400 ($200 with student discount) + $300 on a solid midi controller.

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Posted by: johnnylarock Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:05 am
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Hey guys thanks for all the help. I would get an MPC, but yeah money prevents that. A program is more in my price range. Plus, I also want to make electronic music, so I want something that can do both, hence a program. Reason sounds like a good choice. I am currently trying to learn that Buzz Machine program that Dwreck suggested. It's been sorta tricky. Again, thanks all for the ideas, they're all worth considering.

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Posted by: Derek Carney Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:06 am
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Buzz has multiple samplers, scratchers, flangers, delays, reverbs, gates, eqs, sound generators to create your own sounds, 303s, 808s, a vocoder, sequencer, etc. etc. etc.

Rewire compatible, MIDI controller-compatible...

...and its FREE.

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Posted by: Nick_S Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:10 am
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johnnylarock wrote:
Hey guys thanks for all the help. I would get an MPC, but yeah money prevents that. A program is more in my price range. Plus, I also want to make electronic music, so I want something that can do both, hence a program. Reason sounds like a good choice. I am currently trying to learn that Buzz Machine program that Dwreck suggested. It's been sorta tricky. Again, thanks all for the ideas, they're all worth considering.


an mpc isnt just a hiphop machine...infact the first composition i did with mine was classical...in additon to being a percussion sampler...the mpc is also a multi-track midi recorder...but even if u dont have an external sound sampler....u can still do quite alot with the mpc's onboard sampler....you'd be surprised how much techno and dnb was made on just an mpc, mixing desk, and effects processor in the mid-late 90s(before pc's and mac's could handle sampling and audio tracking reasonably).

heres something else to think about...to run audio appz...u need a reasonably powerful computer...if u dont have say a 2ghz+ processor, 512 of ram, and a low latency soundcard, the latest versions of any audio app is gonna run like arse...and forget about running soft samplers and effects without freezing or bouncing...not to mention the fact that pc's crash all the time(mpc's crash too, but not as often as pc's)

i can understand what its like to be broke....so start with buzz or a warez copy of fruity loops or cubase cuz its free...and maybe a mobo/proc/memory upgrade for your computer...but keep saving for that mpc...you'll be glad u did in the end...and if u dont like it, you'll be able to sell it and break even, cuz mpc's dont lose too much value...hell the mpc60s are gaining value...unlike fruity, reason, or cubase

in all honesty...i used to tottaly love reason...when anyone would say it sucked, i was the first to jump to its defence...but now....i wont touch it...the sound quality just isnt there compared to hardware, cubase, fruity loops, or even buzz(from what ive heard, i havent used buzz personally)...reason's samplers are pretty horrible once u pitch something down more then 2 octaves...u get this horrible hi-pitched noise that even an insert low pass wont get rid of without negatively effecting your sound...the compressor and eq's are garbage(only hi/lo shelving on the mixer channels, and there is a 2band parametric, but they both suck imho)...yes its really easy to use...but cubase is just as easy, and it sounds infinately better.


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Posted by: johnnylarock Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:18 am
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Yeah, I've been using Fruity Loops for a few years now. I totally love it, it's easy to navigate. I just feel like I've exhausted all the resources on it. So I was thinking of trying something new. Does anyone know if the FL Studio program they have now is better than the old one? Does it have alot more sounds? My main music source has been my SP 303, which I love. I usually make shit on Fruity and feed it to my sampler and mess with it.
I'm also now on the fence as to if I want a program or a live machine. An MPC would be awesome since it's hands on, but then there's the price. Maybe I should just get a drum machine to go with the SP303? I've been looking at drum machines too. Has anyone used that Alesis one that;s like 150$, does that suck?
I bought Traktor a year back, and lately have decided to do some gigs with it, to at least get use out of it. I ordered that Indigo Dj soundcard for my comp.
But anyways, I was just trying to ballpark new ideas to make shit. I did download Buzz and maybe Dwreck can help me? I can't get any sound, no matter how much I mess with it. I got it once, and then couldn't figure out what even did to get it. Is there a trick?

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Posted by: Derek Carney Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:39 am
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johnnylarock wrote:
But anyways, I was just trying to ballpark new ideas to make shit. I did download Buzz and maybe Dwreck can help me? I can't get any sound, no matter how much I mess with it. I got it once, and then couldn't figure out what even did to get it. Is there a trick?


1) What operating system do you use?

2) Did you download the massive buzz pack?

3) Did the fixing program automatically run during installation?

4) If you use XP, you may have to right click and change the compatibility to use Buzz... try changing it to WindowsNT4.0 or something else and then try to run it. That worked for me.

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Posted by: johnnylarock Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:43 pm
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I'll try that, yes I'm using XP. I did download the Massive pack, and the fix did run. I'm gonna mess with it more this weekend.

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Posted by: Suburban Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:15 pm
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Nick_S wrote:

heres something else to think about...to run audio appz...u need a reasonably powerful computer...if u dont have say a 2ghz+ processor, 512 of ram, and a low latency soundcard, the latest versions of any audio app is gonna run like arse...and forget about running soft samplers and effects without freezing or bouncing...not to mention the fact that pc's crash all the time(mpc's crash too, but not as often as pc's)


in all honesty...i used to tottaly love reason...when anyone would say it sucked, i was the first to jump to its defence...but now....i wont touch it...the sound quality just isnt there compared to hardware, cubase, fruity loops, or even buzz(from what ive heard, i havent used buzz personally)...reason's samplers are pretty horrible once u pitch something down more then 2 octaves...u get this horrible hi-pitched noise that even an insert low pass wont get rid of without negatively effecting your sound...the compressor and eq's are garbage(only hi/lo shelving on the mixer channels, and there is a 2band parametric, but they both suck imho)...yes its really easy to use...but cubase is just as easy, and it sounds infinately better.


MPCs were great production tools before PC technology really took off in the mid nineties. but with ever falling prices on PCs (brand new ones can be bought form dell for 300 bux!) software production tools are very competitive.

Reason runs fine on fairly new machines. I've had no problem (not even crashing) while using it with a 1.7ghz P4, 512mb ram. no slow downs or anything.

As far as the sound quality is concerned, dnb producers like Commix are using Reason. his tunes are sounding mighty fine to me. Liam Howlett sampled all of his hardware and loaded them in to Reason to do the entire new Prodigy album.

I'm sure the tunes and samples went through some post-production mastering. but still, you can put together some decent sounding tracks (that are even dance floor ready) if you use the right samples.

MPCs are a great production tool, probably even better than Reason if you want to play live. But hardware is always going to be limited by their interface.

In the end, it's not the fancy tools that are going to make good tracks. Good musicianship is going to make good tracks.

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Posted by: johnnylarock Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:40 pm
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Agreed.

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Posted by: Jugoe Boss Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:46 pm
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Quote:
in all honesty...i used to tottaly love reason...when anyone would say it sucked, i was the first to jump to its defence...but now....i wont touch it...the sound quality just isnt there compared to hardware, cubase, fruity loops, or even buzz(from what ive heard, i havent used buzz personally)...reason's samplers are pretty horrible once u pitch something down more then 2 octaves...u get this horrible hi-pitched noise that even an insert low pass wont get rid of without negatively effecting your sound...the compressor and eq's are garbage(only hi/lo shelving on the mixer channels, and there is a 2band parametric, but they both suck imho)...yes its really easy to use...but cubase is just as easy, and it sounds infinately better.


The best compromise is running the two together (or Reason and Ableton Live). You can route all of Reason's output's through Cubase or Live's inputs, using their VST effects, eq's etc. It's really quite nice.

Oh, and Johnny, if you are looking for a cheap, but effective alternative to the MPC - I've got an Ensoniq ASR-X w/ 8 outs for sale! Fully loaded w/ onboard sounds and effects. My first real tool and I haven't turned it on for months.

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Posted by: Derek Carney Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:07 pm
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Johnny... here's part of a 'lil minimal techno track I made today in Buzz...

http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0MMC21ALLNGCQ02CH5O62HV5U4

Just as good as Reason, I think. Very Happy

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Posted by: johnnylarock Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:46 am
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Hey, love the track. Guess what? I figured out the sound deal and now it's working great. Thanks for the suggestion.
Jugoe, thanks for the offer on that, I will consider that. Sounds pretty sweet.

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