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Posted by: jboncha Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:03 am
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 Post Post subject: Would a Drum N Bass/Hip-Hop nite work in this area???

Location: Painesville OH
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I was just reading Knowledge magazine and saw that there are a good number of dnb nites in the UK that also have hip-hop on the same nite.

I dont think I've seen that done around here and I've been going to dnb shows for going on 6 years now.

It seems like it would work because the dnb breaks are basically sped up hip-hop breaks.

I mean DJ Craze a multi award winning hip-hop DJ came around to the sound why wouldnt it attract other hip-hop heads.

Whats everyone else's opinion on how having hip-hop in a side room at dnb nites or even on the same stage would work?








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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:14 am
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I THINK IT WORK OUT WELL,SO WHENS THE SHOW :wink:

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Posted by: trout Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:47 am
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 Post Post subject: Re: Would a Drum N Bass/Hip-Hop nite work in this area???

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jboncha wrote:
Whats everyone else's opinion on how having hip-hop in a side room at dnb nites or even on the same stage would work?


IMO, jungle good, hip hop bad. YMMV

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Posted by: Suburban Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:05 am
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system sound bar in toronto does an "urban" focused night on saturdays. dnb in one room, and hiphop in the other.

the styles that are working in cleveland right now reach out way past dnb's once "urban" roots. a dnb/hiphop night might work if the dnb played was pretty grimey, oldschool, and ragga like.

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Posted by: The Maven Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:50 pm
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JB, if you do bring the Hip-Hop, your best shot would be to use Dj's that spin Real Hip-Hop; like Deltron, K-os, Binary Star, ect. That shit would be raw and, at the sametime, people will be hearing lyrics that mean something. So in turn you will create a return customer base because, they have the same bad ass loops that sound like Main Stream Hip-Hop but, what they get out of it is so much more then what they get from Main Stream.

I wish you the best on your venture of making this shit go down and, like I tell ONLY the Solid people in the Scene; If you need my help, please ask me, I love helping out when the people I am helping will appreciate what I do for them.

Do the best you can and, ALWAYS keep it real. No matter if people like it or, not because, your real friends are the ones that you can always count on to stick up for you and, get your back when the BullShit gets to being flug.

And I can't wait to hear you throw it down on the Tables


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Posted by: Derek Carney Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:56 pm
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Team Rollaz in Atlanta have been doing this concept on Friday nights for years... they spin a few DnB tracks and then mix in oldschool and current hip hop tracks... and of course lots of hybrid\DnB remixes/dubplate bootlegs of hiphop tracks.

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Posted by: Forte Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:04 pm
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Look...not to be a dick...but it wouldnt work. The truth is, we are talkin about two very different crowds in CLEVELAND ohio, not MOSTLY WHITE MIDDLE CLASS England. Their is almost always negative vibes and security problems when the crowds are mixed a DECENT amount...IVE SEENT IT!

Not to say the idea is not bad, I mean the concept of cross blending crowds works theoritcally. I mean, you cant beat better promotion than you have with any style you might hear on TOP 40. The fact alone that theres no EDM (or dnb) on the commercial radio, among other factors, makes it clear that OUR music would better benefit from drawing new faces than theirs would.

IMHO, if this were attempted, and unlike mavens list (much more refined hip hop artists id say that crossblends way better with our scene) you decide to cater to commercial hip hop, there would have to be 2 or more seperate rooms....and thats still cutting it close.

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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:45 pm
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Forte throws a few dnb parties and now he thinks he knows something about music. =P why put something down when it hasn't been tried yet?

there are a lot of different approaches that can be used for such a night. a crowd definitely has to be warmed up to such a night. i don't think you can just get some hiphop acts, then some dnb acts, advertise the night and expect the crowd to jive together.

it would be cool to see a progression of music over the evening. starting with some hiphop in the early parts, some hybrid hiphop/dnb breakbeat stuff in the middle, then some street style dnb afterwards. a really important element would be a solid MC that could work the crowd between the transitions of music. if you're gonna have some hiphop, the 5 or 6 or 12 elements or whatever, should be present.

otherwise you'd just get a bunch of confused looking hiphoppers scratching their heads at all of the wigger raver kids bobbing their heads and pumping their fists.

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Posted by: Forte Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:21 am
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Calvin did you not read what I wrote?? I say this CLEARLY because I am NOT a hater on hip hop...at least anything the a cultured head might listen to, or may by others be considered UNDERGROUND hip hop: ala Sage francis, Atmosphere, etc.

I for one love progression of styles in a night, hip hop included, but unless there is heavy emphasis on the hip hop, then the only ones that will be there will be ravers listening to hip hop for whatever said period of time. If your goal is to get more people, and you properly include those MAINSTREAM hip hop elements...say you book scratch master L vs Eddie Bauer for a 107.9 live broadcast (type set), and promote it heavily to said market, do you really want to have dj SS or Dieselboy in an adjacent room?

No, i may not know anything. If anything, I do know that i dont. However, I have seen this be the case, both at my shows and at many others over the years. The best case scenario, you have a talented dj with a versatyle MC in the drum and bass area, and you get some heads that come over for periods of time (note that this may be foreign sounds to most of this crossover crowd) and you may possibly build a following (over time with numerous events...best advised at the same location/time). Say the person coming into the room feel it isnt for them, they walk out back to the rap area. Worst case scenario, both rooms are filled and theirs a flow of the crowd between rooms during the event, as well outside the club after it closes....well, lets just say ROWDY is an understatement.

To give you an example, one night last year at Rain, it was closing time and people were starting to file out. Next door, there used to be a dive bar that had a steady thuggish crowd, ussually avoiding our club for the most part. As it seems, my Jason (aka Still Lifes brother) friend was doing nothing out of the norm, waiting with another friend outside for me. Not more than 2 minutes go by and these 3 guys (2 hispanic / one black (i mention this because i want to point out this isnt soley a black crowd)) who were most likely drunk, were starting up shit with Jason, calling him a cracker, etc. Now, if anyone knows him, hes not a small guy in the least (6'1 and 240 lbs i'd say), said he didnt want any trouble, began walking away...well i guess those guys didnt get the clue, and one walked up behind him and went to sucker punch him, fortunately missing....whooosaa....to make a long story short...within a matter of 30 seconds, Jason had 2 of the guys knocked down on the floor...i think the third ran away or tried is luck also, i forget? Anyways, these guys seemed to be a bit younger, and obviously fairly stupid, but this is just a glimpse of what you'd see in a combined event like you guys are refering to.

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Posted by: Suburban Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:10 am
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alex FORTE wrote:
Calvin did you not read what I wrote?? I say this CLEARLY because I am NOT a hater on hip hop...at least anything the a cultured head might listen to, or may by others be considered UNDERGROUND hip hop: ala Sage francis, Atmosphere, etc.


you've misunderstood me. at what point did i call you a hater of hiphop? your quickness to dismiss the idea of a hiphop/dnb night instigated my comments, not your taste in music.

instead of talking about how the night wouldn't work, why not entertain the idea a little, and talk about what elements would make the night work. the latter makes for good discussion.

you and i have very different images in our minds as to how the event would be set up. you argue that a 2 room a event absolutely wouldn't work, but i argue a single room event might work if thought out and executed very carefully.

alex FORTE wrote:
I for one love progression of styles in a night, hip hop included, but unless there is heavy emphasis on the hip hop, then the only ones that will be there will be ravers listening to hip hop for whatever said period of time. If your goal is to get more people, and you properly include those MAINSTREAM hip hop elements...say you book scratch master L vs Eddie Bauer for a 107.9 live broadcast (type set), and promote it heavily to said market, do you really want to have dj SS or Dieselboy in an adjacent room?

No, i may not know anything. If anything, I do know that i dont. However, I have seen this be the case, both at my shows and at many others over the years. The best case scenario, you have a talented dj with a versatyle MC in the drum and bass area, and you get some heads that come over for periods of time (note that this may be foreign sounds to most of this crossover crowd) and you may possibly build a following (over time with numerous events...best advised at the same location/time). Say the person coming into the room feel it isnt for them, they walk out back to the rap area. Worst case scenario, both rooms are filled and theirs a flow of the crowd between rooms during the event, as well outside the club after it closes....well, lets just say ROWDY is an understatement.


you're right. a two room event probably wouldn't work. a two room event may attract people from two different tastes of music (or lifestyles), but it won't mean the two crowds will automatically mix. that kind of thing reminds me of the sasha and digweed show a couple of years back at the agora, where you had party kids in the main area and metalheads in the ballroom. the place was sure filled up, but i didn't see any rockers high-fiving the kiddies by the end of the night.

superimposing two different crowds in the same night, but keeping them in separate rooms, is like putting muslims and the kkk in the same movie theatre (for different movies) and expecting them to get along on their way out of the door. there was no reason for them to get a long during the evening, there won't be any reason after the movies are done.

but picture this though (and this is the idealist in me), a single room event where the music was done well. i mean really really well. the hiphop was on, the mc was doing his thing, and the crossover tracks and dnb were moving the crowd sweaty. it's obvious that people are having a good time vibing together. is the hip-hopper on his way out of the door going to say to the party kid, "hey we all had a great time together, but you're still a mutherfocker and i want to kick your ass now." i don't really think so.

yes, both types of music are going to attract their own kind of riffraff, but if everyone's feeling the music together, conflicts are less likely to occur. that's just one of the things that amazes me about music, is it's ability to make people let down their guard and put aside their differences for the sake of having fun.

if the end goal of the night is just to draw the numbers, then yes, there will be problems. but if numbers isn't the goal, things start at a low scale, but with the right vibe, i could see a night like this doing really well. the right elements just need to be in place.

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Posted by: NRM Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:41 pm
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hmm, maybe i should have jumped in this a long time ago, i guess i can say i have been around this city longer than both of you due to age and the fact that calvin has only lived here for a couple years, i have seen people attempt this over the years....it has not worked yet AKA it didnt work.

i bet if you went down to spy on sundays now you would see someone like John Doe playing hip-hop & dnb, i would also assume you would see Rob Riddum doing this as well since they BOTH come from a DNB background. infact John Doe was just telling me the other day "i mix it up and play everything right now, YOU HAVE TO"(hear that kids).

i have been there in the past and it was all hip hop but things may have changed, not sure but i do know that john plays everything and has been djing here in cleveland since the early to mid 90s, i guess if it worked he would be doing it on a weekly basis considering he has many years behind the decks here in Cleve and the desire to play both and has learned from experience what works and what doesnt.

so far IT HAS NOT WORKED



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Posted by: Suburban Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:40 pm
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Mike,

I'm glad you chimed in. I was wondering what some of the seasoned promoters in town thought about this thread.

I haven't had a chance to check out the Sunday weekly at Spy, so I don't know what Jon Doe and Rob Riddum have been playing there. (but i do know what they are capable of playing).

But aside from seeing first hand attempts and failures in making such a night happen, and knowing that the format doesn't work in cleveland; what do you suggest it would take for such a thing to work?

enlighten us please.

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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:51 pm
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It seems to me soulful house, jazzier dnb, and some of the more intelligent based hip hop go well together.

It seems to me much of what has been tried around here in the past has been mixing bad hip hop with bad dnb. The people into either genre are close minded enough not to appreciate the other side.

Rob Riddum's hip hop cd is dope and his stylings would work quite well in the course of a dnb night.


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Posted by: NRM Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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i am not sure what would make this work but i have not thought about it either, i know i used to take dancehall and dnb together but that was 95 when i was playing mostly ragga type dnb and kept up heavily on dancehall, they matched at the time cause of the halfed bpms of dancehall at that time.

i do prefer to not have one style of music at any of my nights though, i always try to have downtempo start evenings and make ways up to almost unixable music by the end of the night going from downtempo,midtempo, jazzier house, club, harshers 130's then off into dnb and then taking it down to tracks like MIAs "pull up the people" and other realms of danceable tunes till the end...

i have tried to have other stuff before dnb shows and no one moves really...i always thought a night starting with downtempo breaky stuff would work with dnb since thats where it comes from but the dnb people tended to be stubborn when it came to moving to it(not all but most).

i know personaly i cant stand a night where it is all the same type of tunes from start to finish.

but then again not everyone arrives at the same time so its not the same to them cause they have not been there all night.

sorry i cant help you on thoughts as to what would work for a dnb meets hip hop night. i was just expressing what i have seen in the past and the dnb meets hip hop thing has been done and not to great effect either.

i do think it could work with an mc and djs whop were skilled in both and had a passion for it.

also the utilisation of soundscape-sih effects if you were trying to change up and the tempos were not mixing, i guess its all about programing because i know guys who can go thru alot of the evening and not even mix for the most of it. i also thinjk paying attention to whats in the crowd would really help, when i saw atrak he did his skits but also played hip hop that appealed to everyone in the room(including the ladies!) and had a great set, he even got on the mic and told people thats what he was gonna do! props to him for that...

all i know is i dont make return trips to nights where the floor is dominated by breakers, nothing against them but i came out to dance, not have the floor hogged by them and i can see this happening at both those kind of nights so i dont put too much thought into it. if you notice at my shows you will NEVER see any breakers. never ever never!


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Posted by: validation Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:46 pm
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i think it could work if cleveland had a hip hop dj that could pull it off. maybe we do, but i haven't seen them play out yet. i'm thinking along the lines of a cut chemist set . . . somebody who can play crazy original breaks and mix them with whatever they have in their crate and get the floor jumping (like faust & shortee too). the hip hop djs i have come across here have played one of the following three styles:

1. real underground backpacker shit that white kids stand around and nod their head to. definitely not party/dancefloor stuff.

2. straight radio bullshit that only a real urban crowd digs. these crowds would definitely not like d&b, trust me.

3. breakbeat records with too many cliche scratches over top. only breakers or their friends seem to dig these sets.

so, who knows . . .


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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:39 pm
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Damn I'm glad someone brought this up, I been thinking so much about this. My two cents, and I look forward to more thoughts:

My fraternity threw a lot of "rave" type parties (yeah it sounds really random but trust me they got really out of control fun sometimes). But the way we did it to make the nights work was pretty formulaic. We started playing top40 rap, dance music, cheesy radio trance etc at 11. Kept that going hard until 2-ish. Then from there we started getting EDM. We all loved the EDM and we did it because we wanted it. But within 20 minutes of it being thrown on, the crowd would dwindle very quickly. By 3:00am the only people left were us, our friends, and a few ballsy or drunk and fucked up random people who would stay and dance. It sucked having to play such wack music to fill the spot, and none of us even hung out in the party room until we threw on the EDM, but it's what we had to do to throw successful parties. And they were damn big for about 2-3 years. Mind you: these were dry parties too. Everyone had to come fucked up because the only people getting fucked up at the parties were the frat people and their friends... in secret :wink:

The crowd consisted of the following: the university's unfortunately socially segregated black students (a good sized percentage of the party), lots of random average-joe white suburban college kids and girls, then us the frat people and their friends. And it all went off really nicely. Everytime. People knew the schedule and knew how and when to come to the parties and it was all good. You'd have some nasty hip hoppers busting wicked pop and liquid moves to the random radio trance songs we'd throw on.

So excuse my reminiscent rambling for a second because I wanted to show that while on a very different scale and demographic, it can be done. There may be very separate "segments" of the night, but you're guaranteed to have a decent number of cross-over people who will stay to at least check out what else is going on. And as long as you can attract a decent number of people to both parts of the night, it's all good.

I agree with whoever said that top40 hip hop night would be doing EDM a favor as far as attendence, since it's easier to fill a top40 night than an EDM night. But like Suburban was talking, you gotta play the right music. Funky jump-up, ragga dirty drum and bass might fly. I know a lot of hip hoppers who, once they let loose, get really into it if they know how to dance.

At any rate, I was very excited that you brought this up. I think that if there's a type of EDM to ever become huge in America (and I mean household knowledge big), it would be drum and bass particularly paired with MCing. I think once the bling bling phase passes there may be opportunities for fresher things to come up. America is behind, it takes Americans a long time to get with the program sometimes. Particularly in a self-oriented country like ours, people identify with characters and icons, so rap music serves those characters up while EDM is not cinematic enough for people. Americans love characters with whom they can fall in love with. We idolize people in this country in a way that is out of control. People love celebrities and live vicariously through them. I think it'll be some time before a dude who plays records on stage will ever be the mext "Usher". Unless he is also on a reality TV show, models or gets arrested a lot, and spins shitty music :c)

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